Archie Shepp was a close friend and intensively supported companion of the style-defining saxophonist John Coltrane and is now considered an icon of free jazz himself. In a celebrated world premiere in which another member of Coltrane’s band, Reggie Workman, who will soon be 80, could be heard. This evening was not the only impressive proof: hardly anyone is better suited to keep Coltrane’s legacy alive on stage with such credibility than Archie Shepp.
Shepp was not only involved in the recording of the two most important Coltrane records, “A Love Supreme” and “Ascension”. His solo debut “Four For Trane”, now a classic in its own right, contains four outstanding arrangements of Coltrane compositions. Shepp is also, alongside Yusef Lateef, who died in 2013, one of the outstanding intellectuals of the black community of the past 50 years. As an activist, musician and long-time professor of Afro-American studies, he has played a key role in shaping generations of jazz musicians, especially black ones. The impressive breadth of his horizons is not only evident in his music, but also in a no less inspiring conversation in which he effortlessly covers everything from major world politics to John Coltrane’s socks.
If I may say so: You seem to me to be more and more relaxed in recent years, even though the social situation in your home country, the USA, seems to be getting worse for the black community and you have fought numerous invisible, frustrating battles, especially in the area of civil rights.
AS: – The explanation is very simple: because my grandmother and my parents gave me respect for people. But also the sensitivity to particularly racially motivated disrespect, to poverty, to ignorance. But if you can change anything for the better, then the way to do it is definitely through a debate based on a fundamental respect for people and humanity. But I admit that I often still find it very difficult to hold back my anger and disappointment. My sense of justice is sometimes simply stronger.
As a musician, but also as a professor of Afro-American studies, you have dealt intensively with the conditions of human coexistence. In doing so, you have repeatedly come across the general topic of education. Against this background, have you found a solution for how we could prevent western societies in particular from drifting apart or even breaking apart?
AS: – That is a difficult topic. Just take the presidential elections in the United States. The change to Obama was a huge step at the time. The white working class in particular, but also parts of the white middle class, never accepted him. He also failed to bind these people to him later on. It must even be said that the racial divide within society has actually grown wider during Obama’s time in office. To put it simply, hopes of investing money in new jobs for these disadvantaged people were dashed. In fact, the Obama administration has invested it primarily in maintaining the banking system.
Ultimately, none of it reached those who were already skeptical of him. In addition, he has of course always had to govern against the Republican majority in Congress, which has severely limited his scope for action. Even such obviously important innovations as Obama Care have met with bitter resistance, especially on the right-wing political fringes.
But Obama’s failure was primarily due to his job and education policies. A disastrous spiral continued under Obama. In short: the poor got poorer, the rich got richer. USA are more afraid of their own women than of black men.
On the occasion of John Coltrane’s 90th birthday, they played a brilliant AII Star tribute concert in Germany at the Enjoy Jazz Festival. You knew Coltrane very well. In contrast to him, the spiritual do-gooder, you are more of a socio-political activist. Or did his spirituality also have a significant political aspect?
AS: – Of course it did. Absolutely. You can’t separate the two at all. He came from a very religious background and so turning to spirituality as an attitude was a logical consequence for him. But as someone who came from the deepest American South, he also experienced racism, rejection and hostility first hand.
Both experiences were always present in him, the social and political, but also the religious, the feeling of being part of a community, the divisibility of its values. Both were condensed into his special kind of spirituality, also musically. In a certain way, it freed him. He also trusted that the churches could be a good place to initiate political and social change. And the church was really a driving force in the civil rights movement.
Among other things, you were part of the session band during the “A Love Supreme” recordings, even though the tracks with you were not included on the original album but were added later.
AS: – Es war für jeden Musiker eine Herausforderung, mit Trane zu spielen. Weil er unfassbar diszipliniert war. Seine Musik entstand nicht etwa aus dem Nichts. Seine Inspiration hatte eine Geschichte. Er hat dafür unfassbar intensiv geübt. Er hat wirklich um die Befreiung seines Sounds gekämpft, ihn seinem Leben abgerungen. Er hatte einen enormen Respekt vor Leuten wie Ornette Coleman und Albert Ayler. Er schätzte die Freiheit, die in der Musik der beiden lag.
Und gerade bei Albert war da ja immer auch noch eine enorme Spiritualität in der Musik. Das hat John sehr beeindruckt und ihm sicher auch eine Vorstellung davon gegeben, dass es für ihn möglich ist, eine Musik zu erschaffen, die ihn als Menschen und Musiker, die ihn in seinem Streben nach Menschlichkeit und Freiheit wirklich repräsentiert. Gerade als noch vergleichsweise junger Musiker war es für ihn deshalb sehr wichtig zu sehen, mit welchen Mitteln andere ihren Klang erweitern, um sich selbst in ihrer Musik zum Ausdruck zu bringen.
Coltrane hat Ihnen dann ja quasi ihren ersten Plattenvertrag bei Impulse besorgt. Das erste Album „Four For Trane“ wurde sofort recht erfolgreich.
AS: – Did you know that before John recommended me to Bob Thiele [music producer and director of Impulse], I had already played for him? Unfortunately, it turned out that Thiele didn’t like my music very much! It was too free for him. When John then pushed for me, Thiele asked if I could record an album of Coltrane compositions for him first. I think he was very surprised that I agreed.
Because at that time, everyone wanted to record their own material. Cover versions were rather unpopular among musicians in those days. But I had just arranged some of John’s pieces for my band anyway, so it was a great fit. And then, right at the start of the Coltrane recordings, Thiele changed his mind about my music. Suddenly he thought everything was great, he was totally enthusiastic. He then called Trane at home in Long Island directly from the studio in New Jersey and raved to him that the recordings were terrific and that he absolutely had to listen to them. It was already night and John, who was a very generous and helpful person all his life, immediately set off and came to the studio. He was in such a hurry that he didn’t even put on socks. The producer then came up with the idea of calling the recording “Four For Trane” because four of the five songs were by John. The fifth is mine. Thiele didn’t really like him, by the way. But John, who had arrived in the meantime, said he really liked the song and that was enough to get it on the record in the end! We then took the photo for the cover, which shows John and me. And if you’ve always wondered why Trane is wearing shoes but no socks, now you know.
